While here in Ormond Beach gated community which allows only very small dogs, I have done more practice with fus’ing and heeling around the distraction of small dogs than ever before. We are constantly encountering people walking their little dogs, and a large percentage of them have been highly reactive to Dutch. I made the mistake of assuming that I could train him to ignore them by giving him treats as we cross paths, but the opposite has occurred: he is beginning to assume all dogs are threats, and is beginning to initiate aggression, with barking and pulling. Now, if he even sees a dog in the distance, he is beginning to stiffen and stare. Nothing can lure his attention back to me. I’m back at square one.
Desperate, I ordered several books, including two books by Patricia McConnell, Ph.D.: How to be the Leader of the Pack, and Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash-Reactive Dog. I’ve finished the first, and I am half way through the second. I’ve already learned I’ve been making many mistakes, including playing with him when he shoves toys in my lap, using my hands to control him by the collar rather than using body-blocking and other “herding” techniques that are instinctive to shepherds and readily understood.
In our obedience classes, I was told to allow him to look at the other dogs, and click-treat immediately while he was merely looking, so that he would associate other dogs with positive things like treats. McConnell mentions that approach briefly, but focuses on using a command called “Watch” that rewards him for the opposite behavior. Every time Dutch sees another dog, I should be able to say “Watch,” and have him instead look away from the dog and look at me instead. Of course, this will take a very long time, perhaps months, to develop, since we’ll have to work in small increments, with gradually increasing distractions until we can eventually walk up to and pass someone walking another dog on the sidewalk. I must be careful not to advance to quickly, or I will set him up for failure, and set us back again.
I feel so awful because I have allowed this situation to escalate by continuing to take him out and expose him to these situations. He is even becoming a little more reactive to certain people walking alone, albeit briefly and at a much lower level (so far!). He has always been such a sweetie with new people that it is shocking to me to see him behave otherwise, but now I know I must be prepared for anything, at least while he is on a leash. I try very hard to show no emotion or reaction myself, keeping the leash as relaxed as safely possible. I keep going back and forth between collars, too, unsure which would be best. In order to avoid having him associate pain with these encounters, I’ve tried to use a comfortable rolled collar with the leash, coupled with the e-collar to make precise low-level corrections when necessary. I’ve also tried the prong collar alone, but I’m concerned it may be too harsh too early. I have a water bottle carrier on my belt, but instead I carry a can of whipped cream, his absolutely favorite jack-pot treat, in addition to the liver, chicken, etc. in the treat bag. There are two things he goes nuts over: one is the sight and sound of the whipped cream can, the other is the loaded poopy bag dangling from my hand, which I carry along until I find a suitable wooded area to receive the toss. He can barely contain himself as he’s compelled to sit there instead of retrieving that reeking bio-degradable bag!
I look forward to your opinions on managing this challenging problem of leash-reactivity.
Thanks!
PS – please don’t tell me to use the head collar – I’ve tried it briefly, and it left marks on Dutch’s beautiful face where the fur rubbed off. Thankfully, it’s grown back.
Beverly,
I’m sorry you are having troubles. I’ll comment on “Watch me”. I use a clicker and treat with any slight eye contact and build on that. At first, I don’t associate a command with the eye contact, but I do say the dogs’ name, click and treat with his eye contact. As time goes on, the dog will hopefully know what behavior you are asking for and will give it, then I attach a name to it “Watch me”=eye contact=click=treat=”Yes” or “Good boy”. It depends on which commands Dutch is used to. Didn’t Dutch just turn 1yr? Maybe he is going through a dominance phase? My males did that around 9 months old. Forgetting all manners and trying to be the boss of me.
I’m not sure if this advice is proper, but I think I would avoid the beach and the little dogs until I got a handle on my dogs’ focus.
Good luck, Terri
Thank you, Terri! I agree with you – I’ll try to take baby steps with this process. I just returned from another “walk,” The only dog we encountered was when a driver stopped alongside us, with a little white poodle hanging both paws out the open window, happily looking at us while his owner was telling me how much she loved GSD’s, and how beautiful Dutch was.
Earlier during our walk, I’d been rewarding Dutch with squirts of whipped cream into his mouth every time he looked up at me when I said, Dutch, “watch!” I should have mentioned above that I’ve already been rewarding Dutch for eye contact while heeling, I had wanted him to focus on me like all the AT dogs seem to do, heads & spirits high. So, while the woman was speaking to me, I hardly heard her – I was so busy squirting whipped cream into Dutch’s mouth every time he looked at me. I don’t even know whether he ever saw the dog. The woman said, “what are you feeding him?” and laughed when I told her that he LOVES whipped cream! She must think I’m nuts, but I was able to maintain control of Dutch.
Also, we are staying here at my father’s house (he’s been ill, and I’m caring for him until this Saturday when I fly him north to stay with my sister). Here, there is no alternative but the sidewalks for walking him, and we just never know what we’re going to encounter. I could limit him to brief outings just for relieving himself, but I think he’d go crazy in this small house. I’m going to have to look up and down the street to see what’s out there, and practice U-turns when “danger” approaches.
Beverly, you said ” I had wanted him to focus on me like all the AT dogs seem to do, heads & spirits high.” I think at one time or another all our dogs act like jerks, but we just don’t post those moments :). I don’t think you can go wrong with Carole helping-after all, she conquered O town!!!!
OK I had this problem with Nikon when he was 6-10 months old. He would just flip out when he saw other dogs. It was not aggression, I believe mainly frustration and going through this stage where he wasn’t really confident in himself yet. He would see another dog and his body language kind of alternated between wanting to engage (friendly) or stiffen. This was not even close up, sometimes the other dog was a block away. Of course that dog being on its own walk would just keep going and then Nikon would just lose it. He would start doing this howl where his teeth chattered. It was so embarrassing, like a child throwing a fit and rolling around on the ground. I tried the LAT (look at that) game, marking and rewarding taking notice but *not* reacting, etc. In the end what helped was just backing off for a while and realizing that the dog was not mature and just needed some space at that point in his life. I kept him away from other dogs for those months, just worked on obedience at home using positive games and rewards, showing him that focus on me = fun/rewards, and most importantly developing our bond and trust in each other. I do not like any method that resembles “flooding” so I was not keen on seeking out dogs and forcing Nikon to deal with this issue, at least not at that age. Now if he had been showing more active aggression I would have squashed it right then and there but that’s not what I saw, I saw a young, immature dog that wasn’t really sure how to react. After a few months of basically ignoring this issue and working on other aspects of obedience, Nikon passed his CGC. He is now a great dog with other dogs. I have foster dogs coming and going, my closest friends have several dogs and we travel together and share hotel rooms, and since I live in the city Nikon passes a dozen dogs every time we walk around the block. But at that time in his life what he needed was not for me to obsess over that one issue but just give him some space to grow up a bit and give us a chance to become a team before putting it to the test. So in short I would suggest not sweating this because I find that the more *I* obsess and nitpick something in my dog’s training, the more focused on that thing my dog becomes and I get the opposite of what I want.
I can’t believe it! All I’ve ever seen is Nikon working beautifully like a Super Star, regardless of people, dogs, and all manner of distractions. I hope you’re right about the immaturity factor. Dutch is a year old now, while Nikon was 6-10 months when he was demonstrating this behavior, but it could be that Dutch’s reaction is only showing up now due to the fact that this situation with the small dogs has only presented itself now.
You give me great hope, Lies. I have seen what you’ve accomplished with Nikon. Poor Dutch is still very young and it’s not surprising that he’s overwhelmed by all this stress. I’m hoping to get some 1:1 help from Carole, but I am definitely going to do my best to reduce these close encounters with devil dogs. I had almost lost hope of Dutch ever being awarded a CGC certificate, but now, after reading that so many other outstanding AT dogs have overcome similar problems, I will never give up.
Beverly, if you contact me and set up an appointment, I can come to Ormond to help you. If you don’t have enough time to do this, please contact a private trainer to help you when you get home. When searching for a trainer, keep in mind that a “pet trainer” giving group lessons might not cut it. CarsinGSD@gmail.com
Beverly,
I agree 100% with Carole. You might need some 1:1 training help with Dutch. We can give you suggestions on-line to try to help you, but 1:1 help is sooo much better. 🙂
Terri and D U K E puppy
Thank you, Carole! I sent you an email with my contact information.
Well, what can I say? Lily too went through this stage. Please do not feel bad when using the prong collar. It was a life saver for us. You will find the corrections with the prong collar are not that bad and really gets their attention. Once you have it mastered, you can go back to a leather collar.
My husband is the Alpha dog and Lily will work perfectly on the leather collar for him. To LIly I am her “equal” and I still use the prong collar when I walk her. It’s really funny, but if I use the leather collar, she does not walk well for me at all…but the minute I put on her prong collar she is as good as gold for me. She seems to know I mean business when I use it.
I’m such a softee with her otherwise, but I can’t stand pulling and she knows when I put that prong collar on we are walking MY WAY. The treats with eye contact work as well. Whip cream? Go for it!
This is why Lily never got her CGC. We could never get her to walk nicely past other dogs without the prong collar. She just wants to play. I am not going to try for the CGC again…it is not her, it is me and I know she is a good citizen and thats all that counts.
Pam,
Why not have hubby take her for the test? If he can walk her without the prong?
Irene, that is a great suggestion. Art would do a good job with her!
Beverly,
You have gotten some good advice. I like to correct the thought, not the action. Also, be sure to replace the negative with a positive. It is not enough to tell them what we don’t want, we also need to teach them what behavior would be appropriate in that situation. For example, when I see my dog look at another dog, I say a firm, neutral “No, leave it” followed immediately by “watch me, fuss” and make sure to praise instantly when your dog does what you ask.
As far as collars, a training tool is just that, a tool. It can be used well or it can be abused. I like prong collars and if used properly, it is a way to get your dog’s attention in a similar fashion to the way another dog (like mom) would correct them. Dogs don’t have hands so they use their mouths instead. They have very good control over how much pressure they exert with their mouth. With a bit of practice you can do the same with a prong collar, you can control the amount of pressure you exert on your dog with the prong collar’s “teeth”.
A few helpful points about a prong collar. Be careful of the brand here, I like Sprenger prongs because they are well made and always have rounded ends on the prongs, some cheaper pet store brands can have sharper ends and this can hurt your dog. The intent of the collar is to get your dog’s attention, not hurt them. It may look like a torture device but is actually not! If fitted and used correctly, a prong collar does not cause pain, it simply is a way for you to say to your dog, “hey, remember me. you are supposed to be paying attention.” Always fit the collar high up on the head, directly behind the ears. (Lower on the neck can actually encourage pulling) Fit the collar snuggly. The collar should feel snug when you put your open hand under the chain. Too loose and you have to work too hard to get a correction. Remember, as long as the leash is loose and you are not correcting, the dog does not feel the prongs. When you need to get the dog’s attention, a quick firm correct and realease is all that is needed. You can practice on a stuffed toy or chair until you get the motion correctly.
P.S.
I like Carole’s suggestion of working with someone experienced. this is a situation where the right training can fix it quickly and you can go on and have the freedom to go anywhere with your dog. the wrong training can make this worse and take longer to fix.
Hitting the *like* button. 🙂
Terri
Thank you, Irene!
Yes, I discovered that I had been using the prong collar incorrectly while reading the book, “Shepherd Girl.” I have the Herm Sprenger stainless steel prong collar with the swivel D-ring and flat section under the throat. I removed one section, and fit it snugly just behind his ears, and it’s working much better when needed. I’ll have Carole check it if we can work out that visit.
While not the same, Sammy had a similar problem when I got him from Amy. I could not have him and Sade together without him getting aggressive. It took three days of working with them to make the rules clear but they were then ok together. He still had issues when he met another dog while walking. While we were working on that behavior, I got very lucky. We were at an outdoor market and a dog lunged very aggressively at Sammy. Before Sammy had any time to react, I put my body between the dog and Sammy and kicked the other dog. Sammy figured out then and there he did not have to worry about other dogs hurting him, that was my job.
If the owners weren’t on “The other End of the Leash,” those little footballs would fly over the goal posts!
Hi Beverly, The very best advice I can give you is to set up that appointment with Carole and have her come over to Ormond for a 1:1.
(Add another like to Carole’s comment!)
I just emailed her, with fingers and toes crossed hoping that she’ll be able to help!
We need a Like button on the blog!
Carole needs to meet The Dutch, he needs some tough love.
Beverly, I”m sorry you’re still struggling with this! I know you’ve worked really hard with Dutch – you will get there, I know it! I cannot agree more that you need more “hands on” help from a trainer. If Carole cannot make it, I can try to help you find someone in the area. In the Boston area, there are a couple of VERY well respected trainers that could probably help.
I also agree that controlling the situation may be very important for Dutch right now. If you get to a point where you need to practice with some controlled dogs (i.e. to set up very specific distances, actions, etc) – let me know if you need volunteer dogs. I can bring at least two dogs and will gladly do it.
Jaime
Oh, thank you so much, Jaime! I read about nice controlled dogs like that – I think they were referred to as “bomb-proof!”
Jaime, could you give us the names of some people in Beverly’s area that you would recommend?
Lynda, are you close to where Beverly lives?
I would like to find Beverly a good trainer to work with, preferably a GSD person.
I am so thrilled! All I had to do is call 911-Carole, and Camp Kayla is making an emergency home visit today!
Carole is the best! You are lucky to have her in driving distance.
Why is it bad to play when he pushes a toy in your lap? I do this all the time — let me know if I should stop!
One suggestion I have (this is something I’m working on now) is to really proof your sit and down commands, in addition to the watch command that you mentioned.
If you can get a rock solid sit or down (I find down for some reason is more natural for Batman, not sure why), then you will never have to pull back your dog because lying down is incompatible behavior to lunging.
Love the body blocking point. I have learned this the hard way! I always get better results when I physically block his access to something with my leg.
According to Dr. McConnell, in “How to be the Leader of the Pack,” we shouldn’t generally allow our dog to initiate the play by thrusting the toy in our lap (cute and enticing as that is!). We must refuse, and instead demand some kind of work from him first, such as, “watch!” with good eye contact. Then, we can reward him by engaging in whatever play he likes (if that’s what you want to do). We can’t allow him to be the leader, controlling the action in the room. After reading that book, I am going to change many things around here!
Remember the puppy packet with the 50-page book from Julie? NILF! (NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE) I’m beginning to see just how important that really is. Everything we do with our dogs offers us a training opportunity, even feeding time! Let him sit there and wait for permission to eat. When you get the desired behavior (watching you for the cue, etc.), then he can “take it!” Our dogs are so smart it’s scary, and it seems they learn bad habits even faster than good ones. We must be so vigilant. It’s a privilege to have a dog with this kind of potential, but a huge responsibility, as well.
Oh, that does make sense! Thanks, Beverly.
You are in good hands with Carole. I know you will ride this out with Dutch.
Camp Kayla for Dutch sounds like a plan 🙂
Carole spent close to three hours with me, and working with Dutch. She is indeed the miracle worker you have all attested to. To simply call her the “Dog Whisperer” is not enough – she is all that, but specializes in our German Shepherd Dog.
First, we sat together and talked, as she made her initial assessment. Dutch was in her face, but her control is unshakeable. When she was ready to work with him, I think he was even more thrilled than I was that she was finally ready to give him attention!
I was completely unprepared to witness Dutch’s performance with Carole. She was able to elicit stellar compliance compared to my handling. All the obedience training and practice is there, but Carole’s approach brings it together like a well-oiled machine. I knew Dutch was excruciatingly intelligent, but as I watched Carole working with him, I realized that with me he often uses that intelligence to control and manipulate. He cannot manipulate Carole. I have spent the past two hours making notes on all the pearls of wisdom she dropped during her visit. I have learned more during her visit than all those weeks of obedience classes. Although he has a strong fount of knowledge, you wouldn’t always know that when I handled him. In contrast, Carole didn’t let anything past her – he was on his best behavior. I also learned that we have only scratched the surface. I will need to find a trainer when I return to MA that I can trust to work with us. In a perfect world, I would have sent Dutch to Carole for 8 weeks before he came to live with us. If I were completely unselfish, I would send him to Camp Kayla, but it is too late. I simply cannot live without him, not even for a few days.
My darling (Dutch, not Scott) is now lying beside me, totally exhausted, thanks to Carole. While he worked hard, it was obvious that he loved every moment. He wanted so much to please her, and responded to her with a joyful enthusiasm that astonished me.
Thank you so much, Carole! While many see you as a miracle worker, I know that you are just another brilliant, gifted, and highly experienced trainer with a passion for the German Shepherd Dog.
Good grief! Who was this miracle trainer? 🙂
Thank you, Beverly, for all of your kind comments. It was a pleasure meeting your Dad, you and Dutch today. Hopefully, we can visit again the next time you’re in town.
You will need to post the notes you took and call the post Carole’s Pearls—- 🙂
I doubt my notes would help anyone else – Carole’s help was tailored exactly to my Dutch-Boy, and are keys that will help me remember the handling tips based on his foundation at this point in time. Like children, our dogs are each unique individuals, and what works for my Dutchie might be the completely wrong for his brother, etc. Dutch’s pearls could be lumps of coal for your Libby and Ziva, who deserve only the very best after sitting so beautifully with Santa!
Very well said, Beverly! Besides, if you gave away my secret ingredients my bag of magic tricks might explode. 😉
Seriously—if you have a reactive dog, my best advice is to have a private training session with a professional trainer. As Beverly so eloquently stated, each dog is different. A one-on-one session with a trainer will help you get on the right track.
Who are you kidding!!!! You just didn’t want Beerly to tell everyone you are using a head halter ala O-Town LOL LOL
LMAO!!!!
But –
There’s just a shred of truth to your comment, Lisa – I was able to buy a slightly different type of collar from her that is working far better for Dutch than the one I had been using. Since collar selection is best made by a professional, I don’t even want to make a recommendation here. But, I can say is Dutch and I are very much enjoying our training sessions, and the new collar is definitely a better choice for Dutch.
LOL! Thank you, Beverly, I just spit wine all over my keyboard! You are hysterical!! I guess you know that ALL photos of Dutch will now be scrutinized to get a look at that new collar. Too, too funny!
I’m glad the new head harness, eh—collar is working out for you & Dutch.
There’s nothing better than a good mystery!
Thanks again, Carole. As I worked with Dutch today, I was happily surprised to discover that I am remembering even more details from our session, which I’ll add to my notes.
I am feeling so much better, and celebrating with a lovely spritzer of Moscato and Diet Sprite! (I’m going to be shunned by the wine connoisseurs) 🙂