I apologize, but the only picture of the blue 1st place ribbon he received in Level I was torn up because I left it dangling off the kitchen counter. I wonder who could have shredded it up??? Not my Dutch!
It’s now eight weeks later, and this Saturday, we’re finishing level II obedience training. He is 100% spot on, unless distracted by other dogs. Unfortunately, he can still be very reactive. I always have to be so vigilant, and prepared to pull out the ball on a rope to distract him and reel his attention back to me. When there are no dogs in sight, he’s very reliable with me while walking around town around all kinds of people, sounds, vehicles, etc.
Lately, he’s become extremely protective when he’s in my Suburban or Tahoe. We take him everywhere, so it’s not a new situation, but while he doesn’t bark at other cars, he will launch a full-scale attack from the vehicle to scare off people we pass who are merely walking down the sidewalk! And, when he’s in our parked car, and someone approaches, the car literally rocks around while he’s bouncing around inside, and barking to scare them away. I’m almost afraid to take him out for a walk downtown, so we park down a quiet side street. Once he’s out and heeling along beside me, he’s absolutely fine! You wouldn’t believe he’s the same dog! He’s very well focused on me while walking around town around all kinds of people, hearing sirens, loud trucks, etc. But, as I mentioned above, when another dog appears, he locks on that dog as if it were the greatest threat to our lives. I try to stay calm, and pull out the rope ball, and swiftly walk by as we play tug. He has no interest in food lures at all – when he’s really amped up, he’ll only respond to the balls, squirrels, robits, etc. While this is working for now, I don’t see much improvement yet. Perhaps his testosterone level is still rising as he approaches 11 months old. What do you think? He’s so smart and perceptive. I wonder if he senses my heightened alert level around other dogs, and is also reacting WITH ME.
At this time, I know he can’t pass the CD test because he will not just sit there as someone approaches with another dog for a meet-and-greet. I plan to continue to work with him on the sidewalks of our local towns, and attempt to de-sensitize him to other dogs. He will soon begin agility class, but that is a semi-private class with one other dog, a 3-yr old German Shepherd owned by Amy, one of the assistant instructors. Apparently, her dog is not great around others, either, so we may spend more time learning how to be civil than how to run the course! Maybe we’ll be taking turns inside the fenced-in course.
Lisa Corbitt, the head of the Berkshire County training program, has been trying to convince us to neuter him. That’s not going to happen; we’ve researched it thoroughly.
Dutch is such a fantastic dog, loved and admired by our family, friends, and visitors we invite over. Sometimes, I swear he’s part human. But really, we have a big, happy, exuberant youngster, full of fun, who is ready to play all the time, even when approached by a life-threatening shih-tzu!
Oh boy, can I relate to this! The good news is, it gets better. Hormones are a factor, but neutering is not the solution. If it were, there would be no aggressive neutered dogs! In reality, almost all the aggressive and reactive dogs we’ve encountered were neutered.
Similar to Dutch and the car, Batman was very reactive around other dogs in the lobby of our building and in the small lawn space in front of the building. I think it’s because he sees it as his turf and is being inappropriately territorial, and possibly protective of me. Whatever the reason, it was unacceptable and I had to be constantly vigiliant to ensure that he didn’t get away with it. It only really improved a few weeks ago (he is now 13 mos old).
I use two collars on him, a prong and a dominant dog (slip) collar. I can tell when he starts to become excited by another dog — he goes into “lock-in” stare mode. This can escalate very quickly, especially if the other dog reacts badly to being visually stalked. I will give him a command, usually “Watch me” to break the stare. If he doesn’t obey, I say “NO,” and pop the prong collar. It usually doesn’t take more than one or two pops to disengage his attention.
If we are in motion when another dog is coming towards us, I use the command “walk” and if he strains on the leash, I say “NO,” and pop his collar and keep walking.
Ideally, you can stop the problem at the staring stage, and continue on your merry way. If I don’t catch it in time or he is just not responsive to corrections, and the situation escalates to growling, lunging, snapping, etc, I pull up on the dominant dog collar to cut off his air and make it very difficult for him to aggress. I release the collar when he is calm and his hackles are down.
From 9mos-12mos, Batman demonstrated reactivity to other dogs while on leash, usually to dogs on his home turf. It was daily at first, then after a few effective interventions with the dominant dog collar, it diminished to once or twice a week, and the level of intensity also diminished. I think the most recent incident of reactivity occurred a few weeks ago, and it was quickly corrected with a pop on the collar. He quickly figured out that he can’t get away with aggression because I will be all over him, and it’s not worth it to try.
You will get better at identifying and preventing these incidents with practice. Practice walking past other dogs in a variety of environments, and see each approaching dog as an opportunity to teach your dog what is acceptable. He will get it! I know it sounds goofy, but having a positive attitude, taking a deep breath, and embracing each challenge as valuable practice really helped me keep my cool, and projected calm energy vs stress/panic.
Another word of caution: Do not let other owners come up and say hi with their dog on leash. Batman (like many dogs) has never had a problem off leash with other dogs, only on leash. When I see another dog owner coming over to “say hi!” I tell them, “My dog is not good on leash,” and I quickly walk away. Don’t worry about being perceived as unfriendly, just protect your dog and avoid putting him in an overstimulating situation.
While Batman is not 100 percent reliable yet around other dogs on leash, he is getting there. He is probably at 90 percent. Just a month ago, he was at 75 percent. At Dutch’s age, he was closer to 50 percent. Improvement happens quickly, you just have to keep your cool and be consistent.
In the last week alone, we have encountered at least 5 different dogs that lunged at Batman (2 in the hallway outside our front door!), and he did not react to any of them. Of the 5, only one owner had the decency to apologize and correct their dog for trying to go after my dog. That owner had a big dog. All the other owners had small dogs. So that tells you something. It’s very frustrating (and slightly ridiculous) that I can control an 82lb GSD, but a full-grown man cannot control his pug. Sigh. What can you do.
Excellent reply Jennie.
HI Julie –
Lisa advised me to ask you about your opinion regarding the training method I am using with Dutch on the advice of our trainer. Please review the last several comments on this post. I very much value and appreciate your advice regarding corrections vs. positive reinforcement, and the proper timing for behavior modification. I may be reinforcing Dutch’s reactivity.
Thanks so much!
Beverly
Jennie, thank you so much for helping me to better understand the dynamics of Dutch’s behavior. Like you and Batman, Dutch and I are very close, and perhaps, like Batman, he is trying to protect me and the his “home” in the car. Your comments about increased reactivity on the leash really resonated with me. At home, of course, he’s off leash. He has a far higher threshold for perceiving threats, and reacts far more appropriately. He knows our patterns, our household help, and even routine visitors like the mailman, FED EX, and UPS. He’ll start barking to let us know when someone’s out there, but once I look out the window, and say “it’s OK,” then go right back to my activities, he settles nicely. Perhaps it’s the leash that compels him to become more vigilant, since our “territory” becomes limited to a 4′ distance, compelling him to stand his ground, with no possibility for retreat. Plus, he has me, his beloved Mommy, on the other end of that leash, to protect. Plus, he’s a youngster, still trying to learn what the real threats are. When he was very young, and I’d take him out in the yard, he’d run around barking for a minute to scare off anything out there before he could relax. Now, the only time he does that is when we go out at night when it’s dark: he’ll bark out into the distance to scare away whatever he can’t see before he goes off to do his business.
In contrast to popping the prong collar when Batman doesn’t respond to “watch me,” Dutch’s trainer, Lisa, wants me to use whatever lure necessary to redirect his attention on me if I see Dutch show that “locked-on” stare with his ears erect. When he’s lying at my side in class watching another dog race across the room for a recall, or walk too closely by, I drop high-value treats at the first sign of that stare. Lisa said it will teach him to relate the action of the other dog with a good thing (treats) rather than a threat. I’ve gone through many pounds of raw meat bits in this process. The food lure is not effective while we’re walking and he’s on leash. The ball on a rope (ultimate fun reward) works if I intervene at just the right moment. It isn’t easy, as you know.
I started classes using the prong collar, but perhaps I didn’t use it correctly. Dutch was almost always pulling against it anytime we started to walk. I wanted the collar to be loose so that I would be able to just pop it as a correction, but if it’s already tight, he learns nothing. Now we’re using the infamous dreaded head collar, “Gentle Leader,” and he’s better in class. However, in Petco the other day, upon seeing a very small dog, he wanted to chase it, and tried to pull away from me while wearing the head collar. I was so afraid he’d pull it off, so I grabbed his collar and took him out. I should have had both the head collar and the flat collar snapped to the leash. Scary!
So, thanks for you help, advice, and understanding. I am relieved to hear I’m not the only one that sometimes struggles with training issues. Knowing that even Batman can be naughty really helps, and learning that there is light at the end of this long tunnel strengthens my resolve. I know Dutch trusts me as a loving leader, and I know he is my darling companion and fearless protector. My car and I can go anywhere!
Jennie, funny you remarked about the small dogs. When i had Libby (who is not at all dog reactive) at a show in March, I was holding her close by her collar waling thru a busy area, because you know the GSD is always to blame. Anyway, she started to bob and when I looked down there was a small terrier attached to the side of her neck. The woman who owned the terrier did nothing. I removed her terrier from my dog and she got upset w/me. She said “he didn’t look like he was hurting your dog, why did you grab him off by the scruff?” GRRRRRR, so my dog should allow herself to be attacked by yours? “Oh well she is so much bigger that he couldn’t hurt her”. I wish Carole had been there w/me to make some appropriate comment, but I just walked away muttering to myself.
Now THAT really takes the cake! Wow. People are the worst. I wish I were there to take a photo and shame this person.
OK that is just rude. Another dog might not have been so tolerant.
And that is one of the many reasons why Miss Libby is always a STAR 🙂
Often young/adolescent dogs act reactive toward other dogs because they feel they need to take control of the situation. With leadership they will learn that you are in charge and you have it under control …and you will let them know when they are needed.
Re the barking in the car….I wonder if someone teased him when he was in the car at one point? The up side is no one is going to try to steal your car.
Yes, Julie, it is very possible that he was teased while in the car alone. We have a pet barrier installed in both the Tahoe and the Suburban, so he can’t leave the back areas of either vehicle. With the tinted windows, it’s very difficult to see him inside, and people might approach the car and tap on the window to see what kind of dog is inside. There are always idiots who might get their kicks by teasing him further, which, of course, would really drive him nuts.
I hope I haven’t given you all the impression that he is an incessant barker. He only barks until the “threat” subsides. You’ve heard of car alarms that actually have an audio message if someone touches or gets too close to a car that say: “Step away from the vehicle!” Well, mine is a gorgeous 4-legged model that has a plush coat and jaws of steel!
I agree with this. With all 3 GSDs, I don’t allow rude behavior towards other dogs, or humans. I’m extremely strict when it comes to stuff like that.
Koda will bark in theSUV but only when we are at training. He hears the other dogs and he gets fired up. But even then, I don’t allow it., I put him in a down and tell him to shut it. 😀
But then again, Koda didn’t start barking unti 11 months?
Dutch will get over it, one big correction when he’s being obnoxious , that should let him know you won’t allow that behavior.
So, it seems that pretty much everyone who raises, trains, and loves GSD’s is in agreement that negative corrections are not only allowed, but necessary at times.
My training instructor, Lisa, is solidly behind positive reinforcement. I had read Karen Pryor’s book on clicker training last year, so I wasn’t surprised when Lisa brought up her name. She also suggested that we purchase Karen Pryor’s “Don’t Shoot the Dog.” Lisa, who also trains horses, claims that every animal of every size is best trained using her methods. For example, she said, consider the well-trained dolphins and killer whales, which although dangerous, perform extraordinary feats using only positive reinforcement.
We have been following Lisa’s advice to use only positive techniques, but I am not seeing the kind of results that you describe above with Libby, Batman, and Koda. Do you think perhaps the learning curve is slower using only positive reinforcement? Right now, Dutch’s negative corrections consist of a “time-out” on the service porch if he’s really obnoxious at home, or a tug on the “Gentle Leader” when we’re out (which has almost no effect if he’s really amped up), or termination of an activity if he misbehaves. I agree with Lisa that the positive reinforcement of the tug toys seems to work well, reeling his attention toward me, but it’s not practical to walk around intermittently offering high-value play time whenever he’s distracted by another dog. I can’t interact with anyone; my focus has to be constant as I watch for the appearance of another dog. I am OK with this if we will eventually reach our goals, but I’d like some outside confirmation that this will actually work. Thank God he’s so wonderful with people passing by and kids! Sometimes, I wonder if his dog reactivity is related to the first 3 months as a puppy. He was constantly socialized with people and children, but my husband adamantly opposed exposing him to any other dogs (outside of our family) until he had all his vaccinations, which had been delayed due to an ear infection. I certainly did not want to risk exposing him to Parvo, etc.
I think Julie and Carole have the experience to better answer, but I think that w/ total positive reinforcement the timing has to be dead on. In the example of feeding him when he is “locked in” on another dog. Does he think he is being rewarded for locking in, or do you need to redirect his behaviour on you before he gets to that state and reward his focus on you? We try to get them back before they start to ramp up the reactive behavior. Sometime w/Ziva a put her into a mini-obedience routine and insist she listen. This may involve placing her in the sit since she is too focused on the other dog, but she has to know she must listen to me no matter what. My trainer uses alot of positive reinforcement & games, but is also not oppossed to a few well timed corrections with the prong followed by the positive reinforcement for a more appropriate reaction. Ziva has been reactive w/other dogs and as Debbie says, “she doesn’t need to do that S#%T”. We used a dominant dog collar. It takes being constantly aware when you are out so they don’t keep repeating the wrong behavior, and then following up w/positive when she is appropriate. The behavior is diminishing, but I still need to pay attention. I make an effort of getting her out where she will run into situations that would tend to make her react so we can practice good behavior. I’m sure Dutch can also feel your nervousness thru the leash and may react to that as well. Hope some of these ideas help.
I think that the trainer has the timing wrong, because I’ve been told to drop the treats at the moment he starts staring at the other dog(s) in class. The instructor says this will make Dutch connect seeing other dogs with a positive experience. She says that if I give him a negative correction when he starts to react, he will stress out when he sees other dogs, and react more, causing the situation to escalate. On the other hand, I could actually be rewarding him for locking in to that stare! What should I do?
I am also rewarding him for that locked-on stare when we walk across the room in front of the others. I’ve been pulling out the ball-on-a-rope the instant he begins to react to another dog. Isn’t this like rewarding him for losing his focus, and reacting badly? I am very concerned about your comments. I may be going backwards rather than forward in training. Am I causing these problems using her methods???
Oh boy, it’s a fine line and hard to put into writting. I would talk to Julie and see what she advises. The reward needs to be for redirecting and paying attention to you. He also should be rewarded for being around the other dog and not being reactive. He should not be rewarded for hard staring another dog. I try to not let them get to the amped up stage, but diffuse it when I see it starting.
I agree 100%. Sometimes the ball on a rope works, but timing is very important. For Batman, it only works as a preventative measure, to keep him from ratcheting up on the reactivity scale, and to keep his hackles from going up. In this case, I’m redirecting his excitement away from a dog, and towards a game with me.
Since I engaged him while he was still in excited/curious mode (vs overexcited/hackles-up), I am not rewarding bad behavior (it’s not bad to be excited/curious), but channeling that energy into something productive, and showing that it’s more fun to play with me than stare down another dog. Unfortunately, in Batman’s case, excited/curious can become overexcited in a matter of seconds, so it takes practice.
Also, sometimes I know it won’t work — either I don’t have time, or I’m on a busy sidewalk and don’t have space to engage in an impromptu tug session with a very large German Shepherd — in which case, I say “walk” and correct him if he does not obey.
The last thing I want to do is discourage you, or anyone, from using positive methods. I used only positive methods until Batman was 7 months old, and it was very hard for me to make the decision to use a prong collar. But it was the best choice in my case, I have no doubt of that. Batman is as lovable as they get, but he is not perfect (though he’s far more perfect than I am!), and I wasn’t able to control him using positive methods alone. While he is still a puppy, he is at that age where I need to start treating him as a partner, and that sometimes means he incurs a negative consequence when he does not obey.
Jennie, it’s the same with Dutch. You, however, having more training experience, are probably redirecting Batman’s excitement back toward you early enough to channel his energy in a positive way back to you. Dutch is so much like Batman – it’s like they’re brothers from different mothers.
Lisa Corbitt, who directs all the educational programs at the school, is a “cross-over” trainer. She’s been training dogs for decades. In her early years, she used the old classic methods based on punitive measures and forceful training. She is now a solid behavioral based enthusiast. I love the positive approach, and plan to use negative corrections minimally, like Jennie with Batman.
Yesterday at class, Lisa helped me to identify that excitement stage earlier. The open mouth, vs. closed, the eyes, the muscular contraction of his face and body (isometrically stiffening), licking his lips, etc. Although he was very reactive initially, Dutch was much better (I was much better?) at maintaining his focus yesterday. Of course, it wasn’t easy: at one point, although I was able to get him to latch on to the rope ball and tug, you should have seen his eyes: they were almost turned around in his head as he wildly locked on another dog!
I am really going to miss going to these classes: they are such a great opportunity to work with him around other dogs whose owners understand and accept the process of training/socializing a large adolescent GSD. I’m sure that as Dutch races across the room off-leash on recall to me, they hope and pray he stays on task! Yesterday, on a timed run, he would have been the fastest, but instead came in 2nd because he almost stopped mid-way, distracted by the people seated along the course with their dogs. Thankfully, he immediately responded to my repeated command. I was thrilled to see that even with that level of distraction, I was still able to reel him back to me! In fact, he actually crashed into me because he had one eye on the other dogs. I saw the danger, and turned to avoid injury, but he fell. He immediately got up, composed himself, and sat in front of me. What a champ!
I am so excited about continuing classes with Dutch. There are many more classes that will be offered, including nose work, herding balls, and agility. Since we’ll be leaving for Florida in December, we may not be able to start until we return in late January. That will give us more time to build on the foundation we’ve laid through these classes.
If you are going to Fl, maybe Dutch could go to Camp Kayla while you are there. I’m sure he would have a wonderful time & not miss out on a month of training. May be Carole will take him to O-Town and we can have another series on O-Town adventures-After all, they did invite her back 🙂
Beverly, If he is locking in on a dog it is too late to feed him treats, he is into “drive” and you need something stronger to get through to him.
I am all for positive training but it was Dutch’s mother I really had to learn how to be a strong leader. Kira was not dog aggressive but she needed to know I was in charge. Sometime a well-timed (and fair) correction is the best way to communicate that this is not acceptable. With Kira once she recognized me as the leader she was the easiest dog. So willing and eager to do whatever I wanted, and so happy. Once you come to an understanding with dutch that you have things under control you will need to correct far less and in much easier ways,
You might want to check into visiting Lance Woodley of the Compatible Canine Center in Brookline, MA. this is his email: skipdog33@msn.com
Again, I am so grateful for your help with Dutch. You and so many others have been so generous with your time, understanding, and even pep talks when needed. When we brought our little Dutch into our family, we had no idea that the AT family would so warmly welcome us into theirs!
You could be right about the leadership issues. I’ll check on visiting with Lance Woodley – he’s on the other side of MA. I may have a chance to visit and work with Jaime in NH – she’s only 2 hrs away. I’m confident that we’ll keep making progress, I just don’t want to slow it down due to my own training errors.