Ruki enjoys chasing other puppies, and being chased by them, but he really does not like when they jump on him and try to wrestle. When this happens I usually calmly separate the puppies, then if the other puppy keeps trying to jump on him I end his play session. He seems to like other dogs, and wants to interact with them (although he likes people better, which is great). Do you guys intervene quickly like I do, or do you give the puppies more time to work it out?
I have several large dogs/GSDs and currently foster puppies for a local rescue. Generally I give quite a bit of latitude with dogs, but I know and trust my pack. They will correct a puppy fairly but are not mean and don’t hold grudges (they can correct a pup one second and then be off playing nicely together the next second). Nikon especially is good with puppies because he makes it clear to them when he is happy to play, when he is going to ignore them, and when they are out of line. They learn how to play with him *and* how to leave other dogs alone when they are done playing. As long as things don’t escalate into fights (which they never have) I allow the dogs to correct each other, including the puppy, so they can flesh out how to communicate and what play styles each dog will tolerate.
There is no one right answer with this. It is more what you are comfortable with. First, puppies play differently depending on the age of the dog they are interacting with. It is important to teach them what is allowed and appropriate with different aged dogs. I do not let my older dogs correct a puppy. I prefer that to be my roll. I also do not allow a puppy to harrass an older dog. As far as interaction with other puppies, remember that this is the way they learn to “speak dog” in a fairly safe way. Puppies tell each other what is appropriate and what isn’t in a fairly safe way. They help each other figure out how much is too much, etc. I would watch carefully and as long as you feel it is safe, let them figure things out by themselves. Another point is that GSD puppies play very differently than many other breeds. Usually much rougher!
I agree with Irene, with the disclosure that Batman IS that jumping (older) puppy. He likes to jump on dogs, large and small. I do not allow doggy playtime unless I know the other dog is stable, and their owner is as proactive as I am in case they need to be separated. He is also allowed to play with other dogs at his trainer’s house, if she identifies a good playmate for him.
Since Ruki is so young, I would err on the side of caution. It only takes one nasty fight at that age to create potential problems in the future.
I’m on the more severe end of the spectrum. Batman is going through puberty big time, and I can’t risk him injuring another dog or getting into a fight. He has been snapped at and bitten before, even under my ninja watch.
I really need to find an older, stable female friend for him. Basically, he needs Kayla!
When it comes to dogs in the household I say let them work it out. With other dogs I am very careful about who they play with, you want it to be a good experience. Irene is correct GSD do play really rough compared to some other breeds.
If something does happen to your dog that concerns you just get them out of the situation and do not act like it is a big deal in front of your dog. Like kids they take their cues from you.
Keep in mind puppies change as they go through different stages and they are not always aware of how they have grown. The last time Sammy he had playtime with each of the girls but I did not risk the three of them together. He had no clue how much bigger he had gotten than the girls. His behavior was all play but he still needed a reminder about his manners. Training a dog to sit, heel, etc is the easy part. You need to continually socialize them with people and other animals throughout their puppyhood (which I define as up to 3 years). It is worth the time and can mean the difference between an adult dog that you always need to be worried about or one that can enjoy going everywhere with you. Remember to spend as much time teaching them to not approach other dogs as you do teaching them how to play with them. When out in public, my dogs cannot approach another dog until they have permission. Unfortunately not all dog owners know when their dog is being rude and or agressive.
Very good advice, especially about how they go through stages.
What do you do when another dog approaches your dog? This happened twice this morning, within 15 minutes. There were two very different outcomes.
The first time, a dog approached us while we were walking. Batman snarled and barked and lunged. I had to force him into a sit.
The second time, a dog came up behind us, caught me by surprise. I put Batman in a down and there was no problem.
Both dogs were large females that we know from the neighborhood, and both had owners who allowed their dogs to approach without asking permission. The first dog approached before Batman had gone to the bathroom, which may help explain his bad reaction. But it’s really hard for me to predict these things.
Funny you mentioned Sammy because Koda is exactly the same! He does not know how big he is and he has an attention span of a gnat, just like Andrew.
Koda loves to play with other dogs… well mainly my sisters dogs and we have been lucky so far, our neighbors dogs are all very friendly towards Koda. Our trainer always say, youneed to learn to read your dogs body language.
Lisa I’m glad you posted this. I am trying to figure this out myself at home. I have 2female pugs, one 11, one 5. From the time I brought him home, I didn’t let Kai bother the older one at all and at almost 5 months old, he rarely bothers her. The younger one he plays with and she likes playing but I don’t like how he will bite her on the back and not let go or sometimes be completely on top of her back. She doesnt like it either. I don’t know how to handle this other than pulling him off and telling him no bite. When he persists he often goes into his crate for a timeout. She will try to correct him or get after him but he keeps coming back for more. I don’t know why he respects the off limits with the one but can’t play nicer with the other. He goes to a puppy kindergarten but the dogs don’t really play with each other. I don’t know if others kindergarten experiences are different but the dogs are just around each other with their owners just listening or practicing. They may stretch out to touch noses or smell a little, but there’s not like free playing.
A local trainer puts on “puppy socials” at a local pet store and the kids and I took Xavi to a yesterday. When we walked in he was together, engaged and doing as good as usual. They had two pens, one for small puppies and one for big puppies. In each pen there was a trainer/helper armed with a spray bottle. Once they put Xavi in the pen with other 5 pups a 15 week old female gsd felt she needed to assert herself and started play-fighting really rough with Xavi. Up to this point all prior contacts with other dogs have been fun, easy going and not problematic at all.
Initially Xavi wanted nothing to do with her and her roughhousing but after a few minutes of getting bitten and checked he turned on her and began doing the same. He ended up playing really rough and “beating” her for 15-20 minutes. Once every few minutes the lady running the pen resorted to a spray bottle to split them up but once Xavi was in drive he didn’t care, and it didn’t help that he loves water. As we left he was tired, his eyes were bloodshot and he was in need of a good bath (which he got already!) After I took off I was left wondering if this type of interaction is good for his overall training and socialization/neutralization or not. After reading the posts I get that GSDs play rough naturally but, I don’t want Xavi to associate puppies with rough and exhausting play every time. Is that a valid concern?
Rod, yes I think that is a valid concern. Over the years of teaching puppy classes I have stopped allowing puppy “playtime” my new definition of puppy socialization is learning how to be in the presence of other dogs/puppies and accept their presence. I want to teach my dogs/puppies to understand that being in the presence of other dogs means nothing to them because they are part of this pack — our family of people and dogs.
Maybe Ruki would have reacted the same way Xavi did – initially not liking it, but then getting more into the spirit of things. I tend to jump in very quickly when I think he is unhappy (did the same thing with my kids), and I want to make sure I am not too fast to handle things for Ruki (like I did with my kids!). But I also don’t want him to have a bad experience with another dog.
I just read a new term called “snow plow parent”, which is a parent that runs ahead of the kids plowing obstacles out of the way. That is totally me, and I don’t want to overdo it with Ruki.
As far as in our house, I keep him completely separate from our older dog, which I probably need to start letting them around each other. They only interact through the baby gates I have up in the house. I make sure Kipper is in the kitchen when I take Ruki outside to play. I do hold Ruki up to Kipper and let Kipper smell him.
I would love to find a more gentle puppy for Ruki to meet. He is such a sweet, gentle puppy.
I took Fenris to a similar puppy social last weekend. Since I had never been to the facility before or met any of the trainers or been around the other dogs, I told them I wanted to practice working around distractions rather than letting the little monster run around with all the other dogs. They obliged by putting us in a smaller fenced area with some agility equipment while all the other dogs, big and small, ran around.
The trainers kept pressuring me to let Fenris in with the pack of 10+ dogs and I said no. He was doing a good job paying attention to me and I really wanted to reinforce that I’m more interesting than other dogs. That and, the puppy social seemed less supervised and more like a wild dog park. That isn’t the kind of environment I want to put Fenris in.
We worked it out the next day with a ‘play date’ with a friend’s 7 year old GoldenDoodle, Luke. Luke is very stable and prefers people to other dogs. When Fenris went too far in trying to play, Luke gave him a good snarl. The little monster took the hint quickly and moved away. By the end, they staked out their own space and happily ate the treats we threw at them. They weren’t roughhousing or playing wildly like I had seen dogs do at the puppy social. They were just comfortable with each other’s presence.
Maybe it’s just me but, I prefer the neutral reaction over the roughhousing.
You were right to follow your instincts at the puppy social. And you were socializing Fenris. To paraphrase Julie, puppy socialization doesn’t mean you’re getting pups together and having a tea party. It entails getting your dog used to the competing sights and sounds of the outside world, and being able to deal with it. The kind of practice you did with Fenris is a great socialization and engagement exercise.
Batman was allowed to go on play dates with my friends’ dogs as a younger puppy, but we never did group socials or dog parks. We now practice neutrality to other dogs. It’s a challenge.
He has a very dominant, rough style of play, and many dogs and their humans are not comfortable with that. As a result, he doesn’t get to play with dogs very often. I feel bad about it sometimes, but I also know if a fight breaks out, Batman will be blamed, and I just can’t manage that risk.
Presi, hooray for you for standing your ground and not being pressured into a puppy gang bang. I am totally against “puppy socials” where 10+ are loose. Not even 3 loose. All it takes is for one pup to get injured or have a bad experience. If they were all your dogs and you knew the temperaments, it might be a different story. Strange dogs—no. It is not worth the setback if a dog decides to beat the crap out of Fenris. What has your dog learned? Nothing. You did a great job by keeping away from the pack and using it as a distraction.
Jennie, your comments are spot on.
Just my two-cents.
I’ve never really been one to take my puppies out to play with other puppies, I just let my dogs play with each other as they have to learn to live together, I teach my dogs the “baby” word so they know they have to be gentle, and I have the reverse problem in that I have mostly strong willed dominant LITTLE dogs that have to be taught to be patient with my big clumsy puppies, the oldest dog I have is a 11 year old Chihuahua, he takes nothing from anyone, and all the puppies learn real early that Uncle Buddy is off limits. :0 The terriers I have are really good with puppies, and in fact Gavin’s best friend is my Cairn Terrier, they are a year apart and it is hilarious watching them play.