Dutch continues to earn more freedom as he matures. At 7 months old now, he is (like all AT dogs) brilliant, intuitive, responsive, obedient, trustworthy, loving, gorgeous, and admired by all. It’s OK to brag here, on this blog, because you all understand how unusual our dogs are, and feel the same way.
The latest remarkable proof of Dutch’s steadiness, temperament, and obedience occurred on July 4, while we were all at the lake cottage. Dutch was off-leash, on our own lakefront property, and knows the boundaries. He never ventured over to explore the nearby beach, with its temptations of children playing, and dogs barking. Even with the temptations of parties next door within his sight, only yards away, he stays on site, although there are no fences or visible demarcations. When the guests next door noticed the large GSD freely walking about, and out on the dock, all heads were turned, as if they were concerned about their children. A couple of the men decided to walk over and talk to us, and as soon as they crossed on to our property, Dutch greeted them, tail wagging, licking hands, etc. They said they just wanted to see this beautiful dog. He sat there as told, and didn’t follow them back. Later, one of their dogs, “Marlot,” ran into our yard. She is part Lab, part poodle, and, from her wild behavior and appearance, part chimp. She raced up to Dutch as if to attack him, and ran around him like her butt was on fire. Dutch had been told to “sit! stay!” just before the assault. He sat there stoically, but made some adjustments with his body and head to avoid her lunges. Finally, we saw she was just very playful, and released him: “OK, Dutch – go play!” He joined in on the fun, and allowed her to chase him all over the place. What a sight! the neighbors were embarrassed, and came over to get her, because she completely ignored their calls. They told us she was 5 years old, and the product of “F-experiment,” the initial breeding of a Lab and poodle in an attempt to create a “Labradoodle.” The best, if any, pups are then bred to other second generation Labradoodles, etc. She really looked like there was a lot of chimp in her!
So, of course, we are feeling more and more comfortable with him off-leash, but he is always under supervision, and within our sight. He, likewise, always wants to be nearby, and returns quickly to the pack after play. Still, part of me is uneasy. I cannot escape the stinging memory of Ivan, one of the finest AT Champions that ever lived, being hit by a car. There are roads everywhere, and we never know if an irresistible temptation will someday surface. Are there any suggestions, guidelines, or experiences that might help us keep Dutch even safer in all situations?
Oh my gosh, I’m still laughing at your “part chimp” description of that lab!! Too funny!
Good boy Dutch! Don’t they just make you proud?
Koda does not have freedom outside our home, he’s always in a fenced yard. My other dog Zeus had a solid recall and solid OB. He will platz mid run when I tell him too. I trusted Zeus off leash out in the front yard, dogs walked by and he’d still be in the same position. But it took years to get him there, 4 years maybe? Maturity of course had a lot to do with it.
Koda will have the same freedom, not anytime soon for sure. He is always on leash when we’re out in the front yard (I garden a LOT).
He is getting better with recall but he’s still a puppy, cannot be trusted whatsoever yet.
While the grounds around our home are fenced, the back woods and fields are not. When we’re at the lake (which is really my sister’s house), Dutch is off-leash with us, but under constant supervision, wearing the radio collar.
We tried to get Dutch to jump off the dock into the water, but so far, no luck, even with my sister calling him in as she swam around, while we threw the jolly ball in the water. I think we’ll have to take him over to the beach, leashed of course, where he could just wade in like at the ocean beach. There were too many people and other dogs there on July 4.
How old is Koda now? He looks so big! He’s a few months older than Dutch, right?
Koda is 15 and half months now, he’s not really *that* big, he is only 87 lbs. and 26.5 inches tall. He is very muscular and got a big chest like a bear.
With all of Max’s exuberance (That’s what Julie calls it. I still call it Madness) Max would not jump into the water off the dock this past weekend. We threw the ball in, and he went nuts trying to figure out how to get it, but no luck. The closest he came was a lame crouching crawl off the dock.
Oddly, once we showed him how to jump off the dock into the water, he was all for it. He followed Jackie so close he almost landed on top of her, and she’s got the scratches to prove it.
It made sense after we showed him how, because Gustavo always has the pups watch how the big dogs do it, and I swear they really do learn by observing!
I am so glad to hear that “Mad Max” was even reluctant to jump off the dock, and you were finally teach him how to do it! But, how did you teach him to jump in? We tried throwing the ball in, and, like Max, he desperately did all but jump in to get it. I threw the ball in, and my sister jumped in after it. Dutch watched, but wouldn’t do it. Unfortunately, Beaumont (my Lab), won’t jump in either, so he hasn’t seen a dog do it yet.
Beverly,
we held Max by his tab, and ran down the dock, releasing him a few steps before the end and jumped in. He was so excited to stay with us, he jumped. The first jump or two were reluctant, but after that he got the hang of it.
I think when you throw the ball, if you let it bounce once or twice at the end of the dock before it goes in might help. For some reason it is as if when we throw the ball off the dock we “throw it away” to a place they just can’t get it. If they see the ball “jump” into the water too, maybe that will help?
Good luck and keep at it!
~Scott
Beverly, I love your post and absolutely brag away! First you should be extremely proud of Dutch and yourselves and the good work you have done with him.
No matter how great the genetics you cannot bring them home and water them and expect them to turn into wonderful-awesome dogs. They have the genetics to be superstars, but they cannot achieve this without their superstar owners.
The basis for a great dog-human relationship is trust.
I was at a Susan Garrett training seminar. She said she noticed some dogs simply did not know how to “run flat out.” being the super canine observer that she is she set out to figure out why some dogs would run flat out and others would never “let go” and go for it. The conclusion she came to is that some dogs live such controlled lives they simply do not know or experience how to run like the wind. Susan Garrett went on to say that we need to let our dogs have the chance to run, to go through the woods, jump over logs, and run. If they have the opportunity to run flat out how will they know how to do it on a course.
Hi Beverly, Roman is 3 and our main residence is in Michigan where we have a large fenced in yard. We’re in OH for the next 8 months and our rental home is on about 2 acres, however, I don’t allow him to be off leash. We live on a fairly busy road and have lots of deer, rabbits etc.. Our neighbor’s dog was recently hit and killed by a car when she bolted after another dog accross the street. Normally, she was fine off leash. Roman take obedience classes and I’ve trialed him. He’s great with a recall and long downs and all that other good stuff, however, he has strong prey drive and I guess in my mind I think at the end of the day…he’s still a dog with that instinct.
On our most recent vacation, he went hiking off leash, went to secluded beaches, off leash and was fine. He’s super attached to me, so I’m not terribly worried, but around traffic etc…I’d rather be safe. Maybe I’m too cautious, but that’s just me. I also worry about other people. Not that Roman would attack, but he is 105 lbs and looks pretty intimidating and I wouldn’t want to frighten anyone.
Not saying I’m right or wrong, but just my thoughts 🙂
I think you are right Rita. You look at the situation and weigh the risks and the benefits and decide from there.
I agree with you completely, Rita. During our vacations to Newport, Manhattan, and Florida, Dutch was ALWAYS leashed. Even when almost every other dog was freely running on the beach, in and out of waves, Dutch was on his leash. I used one of those retractable leash things to give him a little more freedom to play in the waves. Even early in the mornings, when almost no one was out there, I still kept him leashed – it has taken months to reach the level of trust we have at home and at the lake cottage, and yet still I no there is no guarantee that he won’t someday break out that prey drive and chase something. At least, if that ever happens, there is almost no traffic on the dead-end street, and the speed limit is 25, and I’ve never seen a cat there in 20 years.
First of all, that photo is too cute for words!
Second, I’m so glad you wrote this because I was just thinking along similar lines earlier today. I think it really depends on the dog, and the level of competing distractions (and potential dangers) you’re dealing with.
In my case, Batman and I were out playing fetch and tug in the park earlier today. He is allowed off-leash if there are no strange or known reactive dogs around. A few minutes in, while Batman is about 50 feet away, mid-fetch, a Shar Pei emerges out of nowhere to say hi. This dog has snapped at Batman before, so I immediately look for her owner as I walk towards the dogs. Guess what, her owner is gabbing on her phone, wayyy on the other side of the park. Great.
I call “HIER!” to Batman from about 20 feet away, and he does not come. Bad Batty! Luckily, they are just sniffing each other curiously, no reactivity or aggression. I start walking away from them, and Batman goes, “Crap! Mom’s leaving!” and runs to me. We have a big party together because he made the right choice. Then I put him on leash because he showed me that he is not trustworthy with this other dog around.
So, it depends. When in doubt, I leash him. Since I live in the city, it’s a much safer default. Also, he’s still a puppy and I can’t expect him to be 100 percent reliable at this stage. There all sorts of dogs (part chimp or otherwise, LOL), squirrels, birds and distractions that can keep our pups from behaving as they should, and it only takes a moment for something to go terribly wrong.
I think about Ivan, too. Alta Tollhaus Ivan was one of the finest young German Shepherds that ever walked this earth — if something can happen to Ivan, it can happen to any of our dogs.
Finally, can I just take a moment to rant about dog owners on their cellphones?! After the Shar Pei, we were walking home, and I saw a VERY dog aggressive Schnauzer coming at us down the street. I immediately turned Batty the other way and put him in a down-stay, with my foot on the leash to anchor him as this Schnauzer walked by. Batman was awesome and didn’t even try to get up, just stayed down, waiting for treats. Meanwhile, the Schnauzer’s owner was texting on her stupid phone and not paying attention until her stupid dog started snarling and lunging at Batman. What the heck is wrong with people? These people don’t deserve to have dogs if they can’t be bothered to supervise them for the few 5-minute walks they go on. Sheesh.
Next time take your cell phone out and video tape the schnauzer lady and her dog. You cold start a stupid dog owner collection on Youtube. Maybe IF she even noticed that you were videoing her it would make her stop and think about what she was doing that would warrant your cell phone video taping.
“I call “HIER!” to Batman from about 20 feet away, and he does not come. Bad Batty! Luckily, they are just sniffing each other curiously, no reactivity or aggression.”
Maybe he was not ignoring you but exercising “intelligent disobedience” since Batty is naturally far super then us humans at understanding dog language, maybe that moment you called him was not a good time to turn away and bolt. Perhaps if he had immediately responded to your comment, at that moment, he would have been attacked?
So maybe he was not being trustworthy, but rather maybe he knew better how to behave in that situation at that moment?
With Batman, I would say that it is highly possible.
You know, that’s quite possible, Julie. And if so, bad Jennie!
I allow my dogs off leash and free quite often, in quite a variety of situations. I think because I do it so often and it is a non-issue to the dog. The only thing that has made me stop and pause and think about it is when other people react with the OMG “that is so unsafe” or “you’re crazy your dog could just take off” and various other comments.
Have I had dogs just take off on me? Yes I have had a few occasions. All have been on my property and most instances have involved deer. It is only by the grace of God that my dogs were safe.
With the deer, the deer know we are coming long before we know they are there. The deer stay very still and hidden and on occasion this means we end up walking right up on the hiding deer, at which time the deer bursts from their hiding spot in an explosion and takes off running, literally within a few yards from were we are. This always results in a chase. 99% if the time I can call the dog off the deer. But there has still been those rare occasions that the dog just couldn’t give up the chase. Zucca was so bad about this she lost all off-leash walking privileges on my property. The other dogs that were gone for the chase were gone for quite some time and I would have to go hunting for them with the Gator and sometimes in my car driving around. When I would find them they would be all finding their own way back and so exhausted. I think this gave them plenty of time to think about the situation and I have never had one of my wayward dogs repeat this event. With one exception, Zucca. She lost all off-leash property walking privileges
It was only be the grace of God that my dogs stayed safe in these rare displays of disobedience. I have 108 acres in a rectangle shape, two sides of this rectangle are road, the other two sides are 100’s of more unsettled acres.
The deer do not pay attention to property boundaries and we all know how often they come out of no-where as drive down the roads.
So while a small number of my dogs have had one occurrence of taking off. That one time could be all it takes. I have simply been very lucky in this regard. Will I stop walking on my property and letting my dogs run free as we go walking? No.
But I do know that is a balancing act. The safety of my dog vs. the training and experiences my dog gains by being able to be free and to make choices.
The earlier I can take a dog out to the woods the better. I am always delighted when the puppy makes the choice to take off from me. Yes delighted. I quickly hide. And if they panic all the better, they learn to have fun but always keep one eye on da momma.
Most of the times I don’t walk with just one puppy I walk with a group of dogs and the puppy will learn just be watching how the adults constantly come back and check in with me.
Life is not without risk.
All very good comments and food for thought. And are right—it is a balancing act and also a risk.
What I can’t believe is that no one commented on WHO is wearing the prong collar in the photo! Great photo!! Although, I don’t believe it applies in this case—it is something that should be done more often. 😉
Too funny Carole. I didnt even notice the prong.
I let my dogs run loose with me on trail rides if we are deep inland away from roads and streets, but I train my dogs that even if we come up on a maintenance road in the middle of nowhere that they cannot cross until I arrive, I always have their leashes hanging from my saddle and I dismount and hook their leashes and walk them across the road, I am of the opinion better safe than sorry and I could never get over the grief of my dog being run over, it’s just something that we can control in the grand scheme of things, there are so many others ways we can lose our beloved dogs beyond our control, I was very devastated by Ivan’s death , it just underlined that if a dog like Ivan could fall victim to his instincts, that ANY dog could.
I started this discussion to share our struggle to balance freedom with risk management. Boundary training has always been our highest priority from the start. While Dutch is rarely off-leash away from home, with months of daily training, we are now able to allow him to enjoy off-leash activities with us on our 12-acres of open and wooded land. There is almost nothing more beautiful than seeing him run flat-out in pursuit of a ball flying out over the field of grass. I was delighted to read Julie’s comment about Susan Garrett’s seminar – it reinforces our belief that early athletic development facilitates competitive performance.
At home, the off-leash freedom was earned after months of daily training. He learned the limits of his range rather quickly, but continued on-leash until he was tested with challenges to his prey drive.
Our cat, Chipper, who loves to taunt people and dogs by sneaking up then racing by as unsuspecting guests often shrieked in surprise, was an ideal tool for this training. My early attempts to socialize Dutch with our cat had failed, and both seemed to enjoy their predator/prey relationship. Initially, I used a 30′ training leash. Eventually, Dutch graduated to off-leash training as he proved to be able to skid to an abrupt drop on command while in full pursuit of Chipper. This may sound strange, the result is more freedom for both the cat and the dog.
Generally I have Vander off leash only when I do training. In this mode I trust him nearly 100% (right or wrong). Our normal training spot is in a park where I have worked Vander with dogs, kids, bikes, etc… sometimes within 50 feet of us. The worst he has done is break focus and look away momentarily. But he has never gone to pursue anything during training time even if I have him a sitting a good distance away. I hope Gustavo does not break our record! Mind you we have worked to build this trust and a strange dog at 50 feet is not nearly as big a distraction as one within 10 feet. But so far he has never shown me that anything is more important to him than the almighty tug toy.
So my game plan is if there is a time I want to have him off leash I will take his training tug toy with me and let him know I have it. Then, during our walk, I will bring it out and mix in some sit stays and what have you. If he thinks he will get to fight with the tug toy, he will always come back. This worked really well when we were camping and I wanted to just let him run around in the sand dunes without being on a leash full time. The downside is that it really does not make for a leisurely walk – for me. I have to constantly be watching his behavior and if I think he is getting too disconnected, bring him back in for more work with the tug toy. And you can’t go forever, because just like any training session, eventually he will just burn out – which you certainly don’t want.
Outside of “training mode”, if there is little distraction, then he is generally very reliable with being recalled. And if I am very familiar with the surroundings then I will relax a bit while he wanders around. But I have seen him on many occasions go into drive where he will not even acknowledge my voice, let alone complete a recall. Typically it involves people and a ball moving quickly. Thankfully these moments have always been within a fenced yard, or on leash. So I realize there is much work to be done.
I think there is always some risk to have any dog off leash and that every time one chooses to do so is going to require some pro/con deliberation. But in my opinion there is no doubt that the dog being on leash is safer for everyone and gives the handler a lot more peace of mind. But I will continue to work towards having a very trusty off-leash dog.
Incidentally, I think posts like this are nice from time to time because they counter balance all the “perfect doggy” posts with some very real BAD DOG! moments! 🙂
Like Rita and Julie said, it is all about weighing the risks and benefits. Your dog may be rock solid for years, giving you 110% confidence in their ability to be off leash. Then that one thing happens which flips a primal switch and they’re off, leaving you with your jaw hanging down in disbelief. It’s happened to me. I always opt for their safety first. If it’s a situation where I have even a sliver of doubt, there is a long line from me to him. E-collars won’t necessarily stop a high drive dog in their tracks if some perfect storm of a situation develops. Just my opinion… that and $1 will buy you a newspaper. 🙂
Hahahaha I too didn’t notice the prong collar till someone pointed it out too funny Guess all I was looking at was the dog :)) Great posts on freedom and weighing the risks etc and living on 4 acres our dogs have lots of freedom even with the wildlife and as youngsters we spend alot of time walking in the woods with the elders who already have great recalls so it’s great practice for the young uns.That being said my number 1 training is RECalls. Everywhere contstantly from a very young age under many many circumstances. It is the most important thing you can teach a dog and it means your dog will call off of Anything under any circumstance and it takes alot of work! Your pup is young so it’s great he is doing so well but remember he is still young and weigh your choices carefully. I also think dogs that grow up having safe places to be off leash will do better in the long run than being constantly leashed. Fenced athletic fields are good practice places. :))
I agree – check out my reply to Rita, above. At this time, there are only 2 places where we ever have Dutch off-leash: at our home, and at the lake cottage – both are relatively safe properties with minimal risk even if he should break out that prey drive. I don’t even have him off-leash in dog parks, etc. because we are still working on polite greetings, and I don’t want some other dog to hurt him.
It is important to me that Dutch have the freedom to run and play within the boundaries we’ve established. Even if he makes mistakes, risks here are not as high as they would be if he were off-leash away from home. With our 12 acres, of course we have deer, foxes, etc. During the one time a fox appeared, we were able to drop Dutch immediately, using the collar tone to draw his attention, immediately followed by the “PLATZ!” He received a “jackpot” reward for compliance, draining my treat bag of its fresh cut steak bits. I brought him inside, and we played tug so he wouldn’t feel punished by being brought inside.